“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
I don't know how you sex scandal but mine rarely involve men dodging shoes thrown by other men. But hey, we all have different kinks.
The actual shoe throwing incident is one of my favorites from the GWB presidency, the following events are not. Sadly the journalist was beaten and tortured for 9 months starting almost before the second shoe hit the floor... to quote the wiki:
As [Muntadhar al-Zaidi's] screaming could be heard outside, Bush said "That's what people do in a free society, draw attention to themselves." A "large blood trail" could be seen on the carpet where al-Zaidi had been dragged by security agents.
Yeah. It’s not just the fact that we’ve gone a decade with old men holding the top seat. Bush was apparently uniquely physically fit for a president. Reportedly would run circles around his Secret Service detail.
Yep, and if you see a better video you can actually see GWB grinning and seemed to somewhat enjoy it, the first shoe was a surprise, but then he gets the “I got this” smirk before the second one goes off.
“I would especially like to thank those that waved with all 5 fingers”. —Upon arriving in Canada and acknowledging those that lined the route of his motorcade.
ETA: I knew a Canadian guy back then who hated Bush, but even he had to admit: “That was the funniest damn press conference I have ever seen in my life”.
He was overall a war criminal, but that wasn't the greatest moment--he did expand marine sanctuary area a ton and gets proper credit for HIV work in Africa
Also should be noted that 40% of Democratic Congressmen voted for the war, while 95% of Republican congressmen did. No way in hell Iraq happens under Gore.
Maybe too much, may have been the problem. The internal reports that have come out suggest that everyone include W was swept up in the mania. W leaned on reports made by people that were trying to win his favor rather than give him the best info.
For a long time, now, people who succeed in DC are the type that spend every waking hour working toward succeeding in DC. They do not have the spare resources to question something all their peers are going along with.
That said, I would say the jury is out over whether democratic Iraq is better or worse than Sadaam's Iraq--either for Kurds or for Iraq's neighbors. They actually have a better democratic system than the US does, with more than two parties. In their most recent election, they had 9 parties win at least 10 seats in parliament, and no one party held a strict majority by themselves. Imagine if the 2024 US election had been like the 2025 Iraq election.
This is what I never understand when this topic comes up on Reddit, everyone wanted it back then, now people wants to act like they didn't because it didn't go well. When 40% of the other side agrees, it's pretty damn bipartisan.
Congressional mid terms were a month after that vote. Voters punished those who voted against. The Iraq war started out as a very popular war. You could point to the Bush Administration pushing for this war to happen, but in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 they didn't have to push very hard to convince the US public.
It’s all the young people too young to really understand 9/11 who think war was avoidable. Looking back, sure we could have done something else. But US was going to definitely destroy something somewhere in the world.
I think Iraq was unavoidable in the sense that the hawks wanted to topple Saddam Hussein. The "problem" was that in some respects the 90s Gulf War was a deed half done
It's also worth remembering that the previous war with Iraq had gone exceptionally well, after many had expected it to be a brutal slog, with some arguing it could be a new "Vietnam war" for the 1990s. Instead the US-led coalition crushed Saddam's armies in a matter of days.
But ironically, the reason it was so successful is because those conducting it recognised that marching on Baghdad would raise a whole new set of challenges for the USA, and that limiting the war's objectives was the more prudent course of action.
My parents were outraged about Iraq. I don't remember their thoughts on Afghanistan. It's so weird that people are talking about this as if they were the same war. Iraq was two whole years after we had already attacked the country where al Qaeda was operating. Anyone capable of critical thought knew it was bullshit hence the massive antiwar movement. Unfortunately that was and still is a minority of the country.
I don’t remember a single person that was against war on 9/12. People were out for revenge.
And you’re right: I wound up in the desert a few years later wondering what the fuck we were even doing there. Almost everyone that was for it on 9/12 look back on the events of the past 25 years (holy shit I’m old) and agree it was horrible.
But at least Powell made a lying speech in front of the UN he still regrets to this day.
Back then they had to at least put some effort into deceiving the public lol, these fuckers now doing it out in open blatantly because rules don't apply apparently.
Iraq happened because Bush appointed his father's CIA buddies without having his father's experience of running the CIA. Rumsfeld and Cheney pushed all his buttons to get that war. I remember when it was said that there was an informal order to not let any Intel make it into presidential briefs that contradicted the narrative that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program.
He wanted the most competent people. He didn't check whether they were evil fucks.
Was it? People get hung up on the WMD's and conveniently forget the rest. Saddam Hussein, as part of his agreement to surrender in the first gulf war, was to allow UN inspectors in to the facilities we they suspected of producing chemical or nuclear weapons. For years leading up to the the 2nd gulf war, it would be a constant headline, "Saddam Hussein blocks UN inspectors from bio weapon factory" or something similar...it was a frequently recurring event. So UN inspectors are being blocked and then we have Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi fly into Germany and telling BND agents that he was a Chemical Enginner that had been working on Chemical weapons. The BND passed this information on to the CIA. The CIA did not have direct access, but we do have a trusted ally passing on this information. It was found a year later that the guy was completely unreliable and his intelligence was false. Keep in mind also that the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc were all under a microscope for not passing on information to the right people that may have prevented 9/11 in the first place.
We had all the reason we needed to go back just from the violations of the initial surrender. Hussein had zero qualms about using chemical weapons on his own people and we had just been hit on 9/11 so we were all looking at what the next attack was going to be. There are alot of arguments that I see all the time about whether or not Hussein had the ability to actually be a threat to the American people, but before 9/11 basically no one thought Al Qaeda had the ability to coordinate the attacks on 9/11. We probably had some intelligence experts that knew exactly what they were capable of, but outside of that no one was thinking we were vulnerable to an event like 9/11.
He went after Saddam Hussein because Hussein took out a hit on George Bush the 1st. Clinton admin stopped it but 'W' went after Hussein like an old Texan would go for a family feud.
Bush Sr. could have easily overthrown Saddam's regime. he didn't because, unlike his son, he wasn't an idiot. he knew that toppling Saddam would have created a power vacuum that would destabilize the entire region.
He was also using them/Hussein as the bigger threat was always Iran. Remember they received economic aid (among other things) while the US quietly ignored Hussein's use of chem weapons on minority groups within. Only got tricky once Iraq went after Kuwait. Like you said, a power vacuum, and reqional destabilization which would have helped Iran and shifted the so called balance of power in its favor.
People just don’t care about the law anymore unless it’s about illegal immigration then they pull out their law degrees. It’s crazy out here these days.
On the WMD front, that is absolutely the case. The UN inspectors weren't able to find a damn thing in terms of active WMD production or current stockpiles. The W Bush administration also repeatedly tried to link Iraq's non-religious government to the ultra-religious al Qaeda, which was nonsesnse.
Everyone who wasn't an idiot knew that Iraq had nothing to do with "9/11" but it turns out there are a lot of idiots.
This. And Saddam threatened daddy Bush. So either one or two days after 9/11, W Bush pulled Richard Clarke aside and said "find a connection between Iraq and 9/11"
If only there had been a bunch of UN inspectors crawling up the asshole of the Iraqis for more than a year digging everywhere they could finding nothing in the way of an active WMD program in the country then we could have avoided the mistake of invading an unstable Middle Eastern nation and being bogged down there costing hundreds of thousands of human lives and trillions of dollars and destabilizing the region further! Oh well, live and learn, I guess.
The gold didn't really play into it. Iraq was a major regional rival to Saudi Arabia and W was tight with the Saudis. Iran is a major regional rival to Saudi Arabia also.
I mean, Bush as a person was actually pretty chill and quite likeable, he just wasn’t leader material and was chosen by the party because of his last name and personality.
Like, let’s not beat around the bush. Most American presidents, including Obama who was cool AF, were/are war criminals. It’s just that the level of politics and expectations used to be higher.
So Bush’s “uncle” vibe was seen as not serious and a bit much... and then the next guy after him was literally one of the greatest orators alive.
To be fair, everyone looks tame compared to Trump, because Trump doesn’t represent Americans as a whole, he represents a specific powerful section of Americans. They basically built a cult within the Republican Party, took over the old establishment, and kicked it out.
As an outsider, I never really saw much difference between Democrat and Republican. I understand there’s a huge difference inside the US, but from the outside... they followed a lot of the same strategies and policies.
But yeah now... It's fair to say American Government is basically Mafia.
The actions of the UK, Russia and others in Afghanistan and the surrounding region more than a century ago was called, "The Great Game." W was just trying to play a little checkers on the old chess board.
I feel like this is the most likely case. Their grandfather tried to plot a military coup against FDR. Bush 1 ran the CIA and probably knows what actually happened to JFK. These are old money ghouls. GHWB would have personally killed one of his kids if they were stupid enough to hang out with a barely literate moron and his Eastern European sex slaves used for blackmail.
Cheney with the vested interests through Haliburton, Powell and Rumsfeld with the loud voices and lies to spin the WMD narrative. All three are more guilty and more evil than useful idiot Dubyia. Let's not forget their names.
Probably a bunch more war profiteers that kept a lower profile too but these 3 were the architects of Iraqi "Freedom".
I was a freshman when Bush & Dick were elected. My thoughts at the time "We just elected Dick Bush to run the country... We know we're fucked, but at least we have a sense of humor."
There was an attorney I used to work with named Harry Balls. I think there was a famous dude by that name too, but I actually knew another. Like bro, go by Harold. Please.
Remember when Saudi Nationals, radicalized by Islamic Extremism in Afghanistan, committed the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor and then a few weeks later, Bush calls out the "Axis of Evil" as Iraq, Iran, and North Korea? Propaganda Farms remembers
Iran back then had a moderate president and was working to improve relations with the US. Behind the scenes, it had given assurances to the US that for any reason if the US service members end up in Iran during Iraq and Afghanistan wars, their safety is guaranteed (airplane shot, etc.) It was a huge step by Iran towards improving relations.
The axis of evil speech felt like a betrayal to the ayatollah and pushed Khamenei away from efforts to improve relationships with the US.
Given at that point how much Iran still hated Iraq (under Saddam), it's hardly surprising.
But Americans never really got over the whole hostage crisis, so they've always considered the Islamic Republic of Iran to be 'evil'.
It's the same way Americans have always acted towards Cuba since the communist revolution. There's no good reason for it, but people are still butthurt over the incidents during the revolution, so Cuba is still 'evil', even though no one who was involved in the revolution is in a position of authority any longer.
I really don't think any of the Western powers were involved in Korea for the benefit of Koreans. From what I was taught in both highschool and college it seemed to the powers involved it was little more than geopolitical jockying between the communists and West - both backing a dictator (Kim Il-Sung and Syngman Rhee) - with shockingly little attention paid until recently in the West to the Korean perspective.
I legit wasn't taught the Korean war in K-12. This was something I had to learn on my own time in high school. I wonder how many people are in the same boat as me
I was in high school when he was president and it's so wild how he was sold as the antichrist by so many musicians and aspects of pop culture back then. It's so laughable now, I'd love to go back to the days when he represented peak political evil.
I mean, yeah he was but he was definitely more predictable. I don’t like him but I think that deep down he actually felt like he was doing the right things even as he was manipulated. I don’t think he ever wanted to be a vindictive and mean piece of shit like the current administration seems to enjoy.
This is exactly the kind of history rewriting that people did when Bush, Sr. died. "Oh, he wasn't that bad." Yes, he was. Quite giving Bush, Jr. a pass just because he's "not as bad as Trump." It's not a competition for who drags us down to Hell slower.
I have had many conversations with many people about this exact topic. LOTS of people really disliked GW during his presidency, but they all didn't like him because of things that are okay to not like presidents about.
1) don't like his policies
2) don't like his staff/advisors
3) don't like his political slant
No one thought he was a pedophile, no one thought they were trying to cheat elections (for the most part), no one thought he was trying to make himself a king, no one thought he was trying to start a civil war.
It was sold as “finishing the job” his father started. Getting revenge because Iraq made threats against a sitting president during wartime. Needed an economic and cultural boon following 9/11. It was the most obvious, profit-driven war. Perpetuated by liars, war criminals, profiteers and the exact same scumbags. Stop announcing how young and clueless you are about politics pretending this is new.
I always remember that story a reporter told about Bush going to visit wounded soldiers in a hospital, and a mother of one of the troops saw W and went off on him. Told him he was a coward, a liar, a war criminal, this was all his fault etc etc.
Bush didn't walk off, didn't argue or dismiss her; he stood there and let her scream at him.
I don't think today's current president could do that
And he had a reason to! The reason was a lie but atleast he gave us an excuse! Back in my day politicians had the common courtesy to lie to your face and they were good lies that took planning and conspiracy!
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